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Post by Stephanie on Aug 17, 2013 9:35:00 GMT -8
If you have any feedback, good or bad, about the Starting Block system we used at both LB tournaments this year, we'd love to hear it. Thanks!
If you'd prefer to keep it confidential, you can email me at steering@scdbc.org
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Stephen
New Member
You are awesome!
Posts: 13
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Post by Stephen on Aug 19, 2013 19:00:36 GMT -8
The afternoon winds made it pretty impossible to line up on. Not sure what we can do about it.
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Post by SpaceREC on Aug 19, 2013 20:46:38 GMT -8
Not directly related to the start blocks, but a lot of time was wasted at the start line as the boats come out and find their lane. Not just wasted, more than once we were lined up at our lane on the outside and had to wait for boats tangled in that tight space to get out of the way, then called out for not being in place.
Tons of time would be save if boats were released in lane order (and arrived - responsibility of steers) so they do not get in each others way rounding the start.
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Post by azhu23 on Aug 19, 2013 22:04:43 GMT -8
Definitely very rushed towards the end of the day, despite the need for more adjustments due to side current. Perhaps it may be a good idea to give a more realistic schedule with leeway for lining up and possible mishaps. Many times, I felt that everybody needed to be backed up in order to start properly, but single boats were unable to readjust due to fear of missing the start.
One heat I was in had none of the start calls (are you ready, go); the button was pressed and the gates went down without warning. May have been a mistake from the starter, but led to a very unfair race. My team still did well, as we were sitting ready at the gates, but other teams were not. I would generally prefer to have the same start calls as many other races (We have alignment - Paddlers, are you ready? - Attention please - Horn) and ensure they are consistent throughout the day.
Positioning the dragon head inside the cage is also sometimes unrealistic depending on variable conditions at the start (other boats taking longer to get there, starter rushing the lining up, etc) and I heard of instances when the team would either be penalized for "missing" the head, or would be forced to deal with starting at an angle towards other boats. Ensuring that the steers have a straighter start and course might help prevent steering mishaps.
Hopefully all the problems can be worked out. Watching videos from Worlds, it looks like it could be a very effective start system, given the proper training and conditions. Really enjoyed not having to worry about the uncertainty of running starts from our competition!
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Post by Wila on Aug 19, 2013 22:07:13 GMT -8
Here's my 2 cents. 1. Widening the lanes may help to minimize lane crossings. 2. If starters can facilitate quicker starts and minimize lag time between each start commands (i. e., are you ready?....attention!....go!)that may help prevent too much drift into lane markers. This expecially would help in the afternoon windy conditions.
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Post by azhu23 on Aug 19, 2013 22:09:01 GMT -8
Here's my 2 cents. 1. Widening the lanes may help to minimize lane crossings. 2. If starters can facilitate quicker starts and minimize lag time between each start commands (i. e., are you ready?....attention!....go!)that may help prevent too much drift into lane markers. This expecially would help in the afternoon windy conditions. I agree. Also with the buoy drift, it was very hard to tell which lane was which.
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Post by shinsa on Aug 20, 2013 8:35:04 GMT -8
I enjoyed the new start gates. Cannot think of a more fair way to start a race. It seemed to me that the start gates were not too hard to hold even in the windier parts of the day. Teams can practice lineups during water practice to learn to hit and hold positions and gate positions in high wind.
Quicker line ups and starts commands should help to minimize the chances that a boat will drift out of the start gates and will also reduce a (not so sportsmanlike) team's willingness to work the start by rolling up to the gate last and forcing others to drift or trying to grab a rolling start. If a team doesnt move up with the rest of the boats and play fair, it is their loss.
The line up calls used on the second day were great. 15 seconds, 5 seconds. paddlers are you ready... took all the guess work out. (are we gonna start for real? is lane # going to hold up the start? are we going to be hold for drift for the next 5 minutes? etc) the teams can have more confidence that they are about to start and not play the guessing games. not that we cant play guessing games and short starts with the best of them.
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Post by shinsa on Aug 20, 2013 8:47:32 GMT -8
I thought the lanes were marked well.
The lane numbers were marked at the start gates; the lanes lining bouys were color coded; the finish line was well marked; and we could see the horizon just fine. more than enough information for us to know where to put ours boats.
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Stephen
New Member
You are awesome!
Posts: 13
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Post by Stephen on Aug 20, 2013 9:01:33 GMT -8
Teams can practice lineups during water practice to learn to hit and hold positions and gate positions in high wind. Not really. My team's practice time is early in the morning, well before any high winds develop. Short of bumping another team from their schedule, I don't think the solution of more practice is as simple as you think.
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Post by SpaceREC on Aug 20, 2013 9:24:27 GMT -8
I think the gate damage at the Spring race caused too much caution. The whole purpose of the baskets is to hold the head. With current and wind the only way to hold the head is to apply forward pressure. All the penalty warnings scared everyone into not apply light paddle pressure, hence the drift out and into bouys or general misalignment leading to over-steer/correction, rolling starts, etc....
Assuming this is correct, and as we learn more, clearer alignment guidelines and practice on bouys will help a lot. I propose that (if it is not already) that SCDBC Steering allow teams to schedule afternoon sessions to practice these things. It is very time consuming to do in regular on-the-water sessions.
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Stephen
New Member
You are awesome!
Posts: 13
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Post by Stephen on Aug 20, 2013 9:30:03 GMT -8
Assuming this is correct, and as we learn more, clearer alignment guidelines and practice on bouys will help a lot. I propose that (if it is not already) that SCDBC Steering allow teams to schedule afternoon sessions to practice these things. It is very time consuming to do in regular on-the-water sessions. Agreed! But they should make the actual gates available for practice, or at least attach a basket to something that doesn't move as easily. Bumping up to a buoy just isn't the same. Because the buoys are round, forward pressure just pushes them aside instead of holding you in place, but without applying forward pressure to keep the nose in place, we can't keep the back end aligned.
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Post by Stephanie on Aug 20, 2013 20:02:30 GMT -8
I propose that (if it is not already) that SCDBC Steering allow teams to schedule afternoon sessions to practice these things. It is very time consuming to do in regular on-the-water sessions. Teams can, and always have been able to, sign up for whatever time slot is available. If you want to practice in the afternoon, request a time with Mary. It is the teams' responsibility to properly train their steerspeople, even if it is time consuming. We offer only a couple steering clinics a year mostly because of a lack of interest from the teams. We can certainly start to offer more but NOTHING replaces practice.
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Post by xgacchow on Aug 21, 2013 0:45:03 GMT -8
Agreed! But they should make the actual gates available for practice, or at least attach a basket to something that doesn't move as easily. Bumping up to a buoy just isn't the same. Because the buoys are round, forward pressure just pushes them aside instead of holding you in place, but without applying forward pressure to keep the nose in place, we can't keep the back end aligned. it's unlikely the actual gates would (ever) be available for practice, since transporting and setting them up require a LOT of work, not to mention the baskets wouldn't really work for practice since you'd also need the dragon heads to be attached. (just a thought, but) what teams can do to simulate the gate, is hold a cushioning device ( small river inner tube, several yoga mats or pfd's tied together, stuffed dry sack) in place against the side of one of the dragon boat accessible docks, and practice their "gate entry" that way. the cushion will serve as the "gate"/target and there's generally some cross current at the docks to nudge the boat out of alignment, so your paddler(s) will have something stable to apply forward pressure on and the steer can practice their stern alignment. also, steers generally tend to be more cognizant of boat speed when approaching the docks, which should help their control for catching the basket in a race situation.
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Post by F3 on Aug 22, 2013 14:40:58 GMT -8
agreed. getting the gates out for practice is not realistic. Use a bouy. if it moves, it just means you used too much forward pressure. playing near docks could work, but their is added safety and equipment damage issues that i would bet we all want to avoid.
Steers have such inflated egos "I can steer anything" until someone puts a cage in front of them or the boat isn't balanced. suddenly they are all "this is unfair" or "i was setup to fail" Take control. practice. rebalance the boat. tell your coach to stop being an idiot. something that is more action than talking.
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Post by zeedeebee on Aug 27, 2013 11:04:23 GMT -8
The starting block system is fine, however the STARTER OFFICIAL was delayed in calling the actual starts of the races. It would have been great if the STARTER OFFICIAL called the starts of the races immediately. This would have prevented the boats from drifting because of cross wind.
In hindsight, it is probably likely that the STARTER OFFICIAL was waiting for all boats to approach the basket, or waiting for one boat to correct a misalignment, but those delays caused all the boats to start the race diagonally (from the head in the basket, and back pushed from the cross wind).
Also in hindsight, it is probably likely that the steers had a harder time to find the right lanes because we all started diagonally, and there were less lane marker buoys for guidance.
In future LB races, we will have cross wind again. It would be great to have the actual starts called immediately to avoid drift. Immediately would mean an entire race start within 3-5 seconds of at least four boats lined up, regardless if one, two or three boats are not approached to the basket yet. If a team is not at the basket and the race starts without them, I can assure you that at the next heat for that team, they will make the necessary adjustments so that it does not happen to them again.
The actual starts of the races should be called immediately to avoid problems with starting diagonally.
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